When Friendship Ends: The Grief Nobody Talks About

0:00 Jennifer: Hey there, I'm Jennifer and I'm Jackie. And welcome to Slightly Unsupervised. We're best friends, business partners, and the chaos behind bestimony, a ceremony we created to celebrate the kind of soulmates who don't come with a marriage license.

0:12 Jackie: It's all about that friendship energy, the deep stuff, the messy stuff, and the laugh to use hard stuff.

0:16 Jennifer: So whether you're driving, folding laundry, or hiding in your car for some peace and quiet, you're in good company.

0:21 Jackie: Let's get slightly unsupervised.

0:23 Jennifer: So today's episode is called The Silence After the Storm, Coping with Friendship Breakups. And we did get a request to do this podcast. So we were super excited to actually get a request to do this from somebody so that we knew what to talk about. We always want to welcome everybody to make requests about friendship stuff, things you would like us to touch base on so that we can do these podcasts that are meaningful for everybody. But we did get a we did get a friend of ours that asked us to talk about this, the coping after the friendship breakup.

0:50 Jennifer: So we're gonna do that. And the one thing that I want to talk about before we get started on that is that when you do podcasting, there is a lot of emails that come from you from vendors or people that um trying to solicit business that you they can help you with things. Anyways, I got an email this week about a lady that said that uh your podcast is ranking number 98th in the friendship stories. And yeah, so we were super stoked about that, that we're under a hundred because we've only done this our fifth episode.

1:18 Jennifer: This will be our sixth episode. That's right. So uh by our sixth episode, fine, and even though it doesn't sound like such a great thing when you're podcasting, it does feel like quite an accomplishment to be under the hundred mark for a pretty broad subject. It's not like you know, we're special subjects. So we are rated 98th now, which we'll take and be thankful for. So um moving along, um, this episode this is an emotional episode that um opens up about friendship losses and how it feels and what it teaches you and what the healing really looks like.

1:52 Jennifer: Um, and we just want to offer some support, perspective, and reminder that just because someone's no longer in your life doesn't mean that the love or lessons are gone. So um one thing that we do want to talk about, Jackie, I know that you have um, I'm gonna talk about maybe particularly about a couple of friendship losses I've had. And I know that we had talked before we got started on this that you have lost um a pretty good friend. And that kind of comes in the spectrum as well, that even the loss of a friendship that you know somebody and they're they're gone and out of your life.

2:26 Jennifer: And in your case, you've lost a friend recently, not too long ago, that was your really good friend that you lost to during COVID, correct?

2:34 Jackie: Yeah, yeah. So, anyways, that's a hard one. Yeah, and it's hard because you're never gonna see them again. Right. We're if you you where this is also about the losses of a friend, and you could still eventually like we'd come back together. Right. Um, but this is where you're never gonna see them again. I didn't know, I mean, it happened so fast, I didn't even get to talk to her. Um, we were actually they had sold their house, they were doing their thing, they were gonna travel in their trailer, and we had just um decided we were gonna sell our house.

3:02 Jackie: Right. And um we talked about it, we were gonna do Arizona and everything. You mean kind of like just travel around and kind of travel around, but we were still gonna be building a house in Arizona. I see. But I was excited to tell her that this was we're gonna do kind of the same thing. I mean, they were gonna try to figure out where their niche was gonna be also. We already knew it was gonna be Arizona.

3:19 Jennifer: So you guys were like selling your houses and jumping in RVs and like they were already done.

3:23 Jackie: They were already started on that. Oh, they had already been started trying to um So you kind of thought like, oh, we'll do it together, kind of thing. Right. Oh, that's awesome. That's really hard, which I explained to you because I wanted to call her on the day that we made the decision that we were putting up for sale. And that Sunday I didn't call and I put it off, and I ended up getting the phone call that she had passed. And so the excitement of what we could have done and because we had our friendship had grown stronger in the last.

3:52 Jackie: I mean, we'd had a friendship. She was they were actually uh friends of my husband that I became friends with. Oh, okay. They were very peeking who my husband dated. They liked him like a son type. They're very close. I mean, they're that much older than us. They were very uh protective over him. Right.

4:08 Jennifer: And so when he'd bring in girls, I suppose that's probably the same thing that we have with you, the protectiveness of your heart. I'm sure they had that with him because he was from a divorce as well. So he was probably before you guys got together, dating and they were probably critiquing everything.

4:24 Jackie: I think she was still questioning me, but then it was like, Oh, we're so glad he ended up with you. And we started doing more and more together, you know. We do camping trips and I mean we did with another group too, but we're doing more of just the four of us going on places and doing things. So the loss of that was really it still hurts me at times when I think about it. Um trying not to cry. Yeah. I'm so emotional in these guys. I'm trying to back off a little bit if I can, but menopause, I'm keep reading that because it's we're 55, y'all.

4:51 Jackie: That's one just recommended. That's one though, is it that's a big loss.

4:55 Jennifer: It is, it is.

4:56 Jackie: I mean, I'm not I haven't got the other losses that people have with their friends. Sure. This is just one that I I can't go back. I can't.

5:02 Jennifer: You know, I don't think I've yeah, I don't think I have ever had a friend lost. I haven't experienced that yet. Where not that I have I've known people that have passed away, obviously, but not like like a close, yeah, where it's like an immediate loss of a friend because it's the same. I think it leads into this as well as like the silence after they call it the storm, which is obviously the fight or the turmoil or whatever, but yours is the silence, just the silence. There was no storm, which almost makes it, you know, what I would consider a little rougher because at least in a storm, there's some turmoil and there's some things that go on in a relationship, and then and then you you have your emotions in that or whatever.

5:41 Jennifer: Yours was just silence. Like that's a tough that's gotta be tough.

5:44 Jackie: So certain things. Um, I think I told you the other day there's a memories, you know, your memories on your Facebook and stuff, and it was a picture of her holding my first grandchild while we were camping down in Pachinga. It just doesn't remember it.

5:58 Jennifer: Yeah, reminder.

5:59 Jackie: Well, I think of her grandchildren. Yeah.

6:02 Jennifer: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I bet.

6:05 Jackie: Oh, it's not a good grandmother, good person.

6:07 Jennifer: It's still different. I mean, it's like, you know, you got to grieve over friendships, and some people you don't get to ever go back and reconcile that. That's a tough one to to live by. Anyways, with the the silence after the storm and coping with friendship breakups, you know, the first part of it is when the friendship ends, then recognizing it's over. I mean, sometimes um those things are hard to know because you could be, I've had friendship. Everybody has it. I have had, I'm gonna talk about one particular friend that was really, I was really close to for a lot of years.

6:38 Jennifer: And like you get into a tiff, you get into a disagreement, you just get into a place in life where, you know, I stood some ground with her and I feel like we never got past it. And it's like, is this really, are we done? Like that's a that's a hard thing to really recognize is like we're just in a fight, right? We're gonna get past this, right? We've gotten, you know, we've been friends for so long. How do we just end on that? So I think that's part of the term, that's part of the heartbreak is to recognize that wait a minute, we're not going to get back together.

7:10 Jennifer: This isn't gonna fix itself. And we're not gonna just like girls do have a TIFF and get past it and move on and go on and be, you know, friends again. Like, you know, we have so much history. So, you know, from that standpoint, I can totally understand how um the loss of that person in your life can be tough because they c they feel such a bucket, the fullness for you in so many ways on some on, you know, whatever it is that they're good at, whatever you're friends with them, whatever you're in have in common, and then you get into a little tiff and then it's over.

7:40 Jennifer: And recognizing that, like, wait a minute, it's kind of like a morning of a relationship. I mean, it is. I mean, yours is a morning you knew it was over, but sometimes when you have these fights with friends that you don't I have a different feeling than you do, I think, in that too.

7:54 Jackie: Where I that's why I bring up my girlfriend that passed, and I have another one I've talked to in like episodes, and you know, and this has all been as I've been older, and like you're saying that you haven't had I feel like the friends that I have kind of put away and I'm done with, I'm done. Right. Like I made that decision, right? And it was the right decision. And I think at that point there might have been some times I'm like, I'm gonna miss this, I'm gonna miss that. But I know for me, that was the best thing I could do for myself mentally, physically, emotionally, and all that.

8:22 Jackie: Right. So any friends I've done that with, I mean myself, I feel like did that for a reason I had to do it.

8:27 Jennifer: Right. Like you like if you got into a TIFF or something, like you've just made the mental decision to kind of move on, whatnot.

8:33 Jackie: It wouldn't be like one thing they did. Sure. They've obviously it must have been there there's made a few circumstances because I give everybody sure lots of chances. You know that.

8:42 Jennifer: Yeah.

8:42 Jackie: And so, but it hadn't just be a final thing, okay. This is what I gotta do. I can't do this anymore. Right, right.

8:48 Jennifer: And I think that, you know, we have I have a lot of friends, and and I have me, you know, I'm very blessed to be in a group of best friends or whatever. And I totally agree with that. But it's it's like it is still kind of a sting to go, oh my God, that's it. We've set our la we've had our last giggle together. We have had our last cry together, we have had our last moments of, you know, traveling together. We've it's done. It's a it's a to recognize it's over is just the first step and really like then you have to get to the the next part of it after that, it was which is like the emotional fallout from it.

9:22 Jennifer: Like you have just lost a friend, and you know, this the the shame or the sadness or the confusion that comes after it, and then and it feels so personal, right? With your best one of your best friends, like wow, like uh for me, the emotional fallout with that after I had this with one of my friends was that best were we friends? I don't know. Like, I don't maybe I'm just a very like forgiving human, but I would never just do that with a friend and not be like, at least put let's put this into some place where we can tuck it away for a little bit and we'll come back to it at some point.

9:57 Jennifer: But like, I don't know, you just sort of I guess you feel sort of like you got you didn't maybe you weren't that close. Maybe you weren't that important to that person, and maybe that's part of the fallout on that's the shame of it because you're like, there's can't be there's if nothing terrible happened, then how come you can't get past it? Sure, like it has to be something captured.

10:15 Jackie: Like I said, yes, I've given many chances, but I think the ones I actually done that with, there was a reason. There was a reason. Yeah, I had to get right had to be done. Yeah.

10:24 Jennifer: Well, it is the fallout of it. There is an emotional fallout, it's the next part of it that's tough, and then um, you know, having to go on with life and trying life again. I don't care what anybody says, friendship is friendship, and we need to get more credit for these friendships, these relationships in women's life, particularly, because we do need each other from an emotional standpoint to survive. So if we don't take some kind of accountability for the fact that these relationships are not just, you know, we broke up with our boyfriend Tuesday and we'll go get a new best friend on Friday, kind of thing.

10:56 Jennifer: Like they just don't happen. Sparks don't happen with everybody. You can't possibly find enough new best friend. It's a process, you have to get close to people. So if you don't have a, you know, other best friends or other people, I can imagine that's, you know, just a drop off a cliff. That's got to be a tough that's gotta be a tough thing to just get up every day and kind of face. So I think, you know, society itself should give women in particular. Not that men don't have it. It's just that men, you know, they don't they don't have an emotional attachment to things.

11:27 Jennifer: More women have more of attachment to that because we're emotional creatures and they're just more like, I don't know, the guy's not we're not gonna play football together. We're not gonna football, you know, like I'm not gonna play golf with you. I'm not gonna golf with you anymore or something. Not that they don't, I'm sure they, you know, have their own stuff with men. I don't want to take away from that, but I just think that I understand the woman side of it more, and I will say that it's gotta be just an absolute heartache.

11:51 Jennifer: It can be, and we have to allow for that because it's a loss, a big loss. So, anyways, um, you do need closure to heal. I know that people, even this in a relationship, you break up with somebody, and I'm just talking about a male, female. You go out with each other and you break up with each other, and then you get back together and you fight for a while, and then you break up again, and then you know, there's a whole thing that generally happens. You know what I'm saying? Like you most people don't just like get together and then break up one day and that's the end.

12:18 Jennifer: There's always this going back and forth, right? But part of that broke back and forth for a lot of people is closure. It's like, yes, you're still the same person I remember you to be. I'll give you another chance. Yes, you're the same. So there's a closure part of that. We're closing the door, kind of the door's starting to close, and you're going back and forth with fights until the doors fully closed. And so I think um with if you have this happen with a friend, like I had this happen with a friend, is that you don't know if the doors close, like you're staring at it.

12:46 Jennifer: Like, are we gonna do this? Like, I don't know. I just feel like for me, there was no closure as well. I know that you feel that way as well because you had somebody that just had passed away. But you know, the closure is part of the healing part of it. So I think sometimes we have to, for me, I'm a writer, so I will write. I write letters, I do a lot of letter writing just on my own thoughts and read them and then shred them in the shredder because I don't want anybody to read them, but they do help me process some of my feelings or get in my emotions out.

13:13 Jennifer: So I think that's a really good way to do it if you're not gonna have closure with somebody that you find closure your own way. So I know there's, you know, maybe just conversations and cars or talk to somebody who's not there, how I feel, or you know, how you made me feel. But there's gotta be some part of it that you find some closure on stuff because without closure, things are very left raw and susceptible to just people feeling pain a lot, don't you think? I mean, isn't that kind of do you feel like you ever get like not have you ever had any have you ever had a relationship where you just had no closure?

13:43 Jennifer: It was just over and you're just like left on this island, like and I'm not talking about the ones that passed away, but you know, like any other can you think of any other relationship where you just didn't get closure and it's always bugged you a little bit?

13:53 Jackie: I would say, Well, we were that way.

13:55 Jennifer: Yeah, that's true.

13:56 Jackie: That was like, but we came back. See, so that's that's where I come to like we have another friend and and Yes that yeah, I know who you're talking about.

14:05 Jennifer: We try not to say names, guys, because we don't we haven't talked to these people. I don't know if we should be talking about them. But her and I both have a friend that we were close to and we did kind of get dropped off a cliff.

14:14 Jackie: Yeah. But she reaches out. I get a Christmas card, graduation card. Right, but not like a real I've had I haven't had a phone conversation with her since uh I divorced. And when I was going through it, she had called to check on me. Sure. And um I thought I was gonna see her up to that point. Sure. But just it kind of went back to the silence again. Right. But I'm like, but here I am. I guess that's what how it had to be. Okay. But she wants. Sure. She didn't talk to anybody.

14:43 Jennifer: She didn't talk to anybody. But I'm sure at some point you were like, Well, shouldn't I call her?

14:46 Jackie: Like, I'm sure there was a point you're like, are we thinking I do is just send the Christmas card again back to her every year too. Christmas cards.

14:52 Jennifer: But you never felt like, oh, I'd like to find out that we did I do something? And I'm sure there's like a little bit of that going, like, did you ever like but I felt like it was with everybody.

15:01 Jackie: It was with everybody. That's a different, that's a circumstance. Yeah, that because we all have a group that all of us had talked to her, like other friends that we don't hang out, not any of our best friends, but other friends that she's hanging out with that we've all talked about it together. Like, have you heard from her? Right, right, right, right. And ones are like, no, I've talked to her sister, but I haven't heard and I don't ask. So I mean, we I know she's fine.

15:22 Jennifer: Yeah, we know she's fine. We so we worry about her. I mean, we're gonna always worry about her, and she's always gonna be somebody that we both loved as a person. Like, she's a really good person, but she did kind of cut everybody off. So that's tough. I mean, it's tough not to have closure.

15:36 Jackie: And then we have like another friend that um she is very political and got very angry at me at one point, and like, you know, on the social media type stuff, and just blah blah blah, like, did this write you off, write me off type thing. And I just kind of let go. I'm like, you know what, it's gonna and now we're back again. Oh, good. And she's positive when she sends little messages.

15:55 Jennifer: Politics is really taking a real, I mean, good lord, I don't know. There's gotta be people listening to this podcast that have lost friends to politics, and you're like, well, it's their fault, they should believe what I believe. And listen here, kids, like politics have gotten really radical. I think that it's too far left and it's too far right. Like, we gotta get back in the middle. Well, when we were in the middle, we all got along because it kind of teetered back and forth a little bit, but the radical politics have really taken a toll on friendships.

16:21 Jennifer: I agree. I kind of stayed with no closure.

16:24 Jackie: Sure. I was like, okay, that's her choice. Sure, you know it's different than mine. I care about her. Yeah, she just said you say certain things she didn't like.

16:33 Jennifer: Right, right, right, right. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear what your opinions are.

16:37 Jackie: Tell me what I should do. Yeah, yeah. You're telling everybody else what they should do.

16:41 Jennifer: I'm sure there's plenty of people on this podcast. Trying to say it's a little aggressive. So, anyways, the healing process, you know, the allowing yourself to grieve, to cry, to raise, reflect, feel it all, don't rush the replacing your new bestie, which we've talked about. You're just not gonna replace your bestie on Friday because you lost one on Tuesday. These things take time to do it. And what that loss teaches you, you know, I every time you lose somebody, and this happens when you start dating, you know, when you first date somebody, when your very first boyfriend, you're wide open.

17:07 Jennifer: You're like, you know, I don't have any boundaries. I love you, you love me. This is gonna be the best thing on the whole planet, the whole, you know, for the rest of our lives, we're gonna be together. And then you realize that is not the way that works. I first love people. No, I don't think it works for most people that way, but the second relationship you have to that, you now have baggage that you are bringing into the second plane. You're like, let me go get my bags, and then you drag all this stuff into the second relationship.

17:30 Jennifer: You're like, no, you can't do that because that guy did that, and now you're not allowed to do that. And you can't do that because that my last boyfriend did that, and now you can't do that either. Like, we literally drag in our problems that we had from the first relationship into the second relationship, and now we have boundaries. Boundaries are like, you can't do that, and you can't do that, and so I got burnt burnt. So I think that happens in friendships too, right? Like, I think that can happen.

17:54 Jennifer: So I think that last teaches you to have some boundaries and that what patterns come up, you don't want to have them repeated, right? So this feels very familiar. This happened last time I was with my friend, and we lot we lost that friendship. So I think it can give you some of that watching out for patterns or whatever, and then what you deserve in the friendship, right? I mean, everybody deserves respect and love and admiration and loyalty from somebody particular, your best friend. If you don't have that, then they're just a friend on like a glorified friend or something.

18:26 Jennifer: Like, I can't even imagine that's how you get to bestie, right? You get you move up in the world of it because those tighten up and you feel like those are true. That person is like that and you can be trusted or whatever. So then the you know, the the loss is gonna teach you about memories, and um, even if things don't uh end right in that relationship, at least you have the memories. Um we've talked about a friend of ours, but she wrote me the a letter one time that said that you know, you have to let go of something to gain something too.

18:58 Jennifer: So, you know, the memories, if you can take the good memories with it, not everything's bad. I think time does erase bad memories after a while. Have you ever had like somebody you've like got really angry with, and then it's so much time's gone by and now you're like, I just remember all the good stuff. But you only remember like eventually you just remember like the good stuff, right?

19:15 Jackie: Like raising your kids, yeah. Like people be like, Oh, I lost life, like how did this happen? And I always go, you know what? All I remember are the good things now, right? Like I kind of the struggles are gone, yeah. Right. And I used to think that was funny because older people wouldn't say that to me, and I'd be like, Oh bull, you cannot forget that. You hold on to that forever. It's like now it's like you know, all these all my kids are having kids, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But go in, and I'm like, mine's all good.

19:42 Jackie: Like, I don't have the bad thoughts of like them staying up and I couldn't sleep. Right. Did that happen? You always slept well. You always slept good. You went to bed on time yourself.

19:53 Jennifer: Oh now you're delusional. You're delusional now. But that happens with childbirth because if we didn't re if you remembered everything bad about childbirth, you'd never do it again.

20:01 unknown: Right.

20:01 Jennifer: They say that the women forget and they're like, oh, I'll go back and do another baby, and then they remember again and like you know, so anyways, and then there's also the part of you, the one that lets go, the one that ends the friendships, which sounds like Jackie. Sometimes you've done, you know, just sort of that worrying about things and just staying grounded in your truth about who you are and what decision you made on that on and living in that and being like, I'm gonna stand my ground on this.

20:24 Jennifer: I'm not buckling down for changing that that was a big enough point on my side that you needed to change, or we needed to have a compromise in that area. And if we can't, then we can't. I mean, you got to stand your ground with some stuff on that because you have, especially as we get older, right? We get more in tune with our, I don't know, who we are and what we'll put up with and what we won't put up with.

20:43 Jackie: Right. At 20 years, the ones that I have done this with separate myself, they treated me like I look back now, right? And I have good memories with them that I do it had to be done because there was too many things that were done to me that too many chances. Right. And I wasn't gonna feel guilty. And I thought you have to guilty, let's talk about. Well, you you always say you give people a lot of chances. Right, and that's what I and I give a lot of chances, right?

21:08 Jennifer: So So you can't really in your world, you can't, you don't feel too terribly bad about it because it I gave you plenty of chances to fix that.

21:15 Jackie: Don't think I'm that person.

21:17 Jennifer: No, of course not. Yeah, you just you get you get through it faster, I guess. Anyways, moving forward with that bitterness, the peace over the pettiness, oh, you know, being uh you don't have to prove that you were right about anything. You're gonna get that as you get older. You're just gonna start walking away. I know you 20-year-olds are plotting your revenge, but don't think we didn't plot our revenge as well. We're not 20 anymore, though. Um, your 30 year olds are like, when I get time, I'm gonna plot my revenge.

21:43 Jennifer: And your 40 year olds are like, you know, I don't know, revenge, we'll think about it. Like you do some secondary thoughts. By 50, you're like, yeah, you go. You just have your life, and I'm not, I've got nothing to prove here. I'm not you just at some point lose your need to prove that you, you know, what was right and what was wrong. You just Let it go. And I think that's a nice thing. So, and you can love somebody and let them go. You don't you don't have to say, I have to get to a place where I hate you in order for this to be done.

22:09 Jennifer: You could just say, I love you as a person, and I'm gonna let you be. You're better without me, and I'm better without you, kind of thing.

22:16 Song: Exactly.

22:16 Jennifer: I think that can happen. And then with them well, I mean, we don't have to be vicious.

22:21 Jackie: Because even like ones I've talked about, I've been they've reached out to me and like when my husband was going through his cancer, and I said, Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate that. I mean, I didn't like not right thank them. Right.

22:33 Jennifer: Um, and I but it's a it's just at a it's a more of a distance, you know, a more of a casual situation versus having to be involved with um you know, having them in your space all the time. You you can be close to some you can like somebody, but you don't have to be with them.

22:50 Jackie: I wish I'll children have gotten married, yeah. I you know, I we were they extended the invitation, I think, because they're right trying to bring us back in, and I was just like, well, I send a gift. Right, right. Right.

23:03 Jennifer: So, anyways, just just making space for new energy and and being the kind of friend you needed when you were during the loss. I I just want to reflect on that for a minute because we're talking about a friend that asked us to speak about this and she lost a really her best friend when we were younger. And um, I don't know if during that time I was the kind of friend that she needed. I don't know if I understood it. I don't know if I had lost anybody. You know, when you have lost and you understand loss, you understand how people feel, so it's easier to sympathize or get into a sympathy position because you're like, oh, I felt that.

23:35 Jennifer: I felt that before, and that hurts. So, you know, I hope that this friend that we have that asks us to do that re recognizes the idea that you do need your friends around you when these things happen or during loss, any time of loss. And I'm not sure I was a very good friend during that. So I did, I did.

23:49 Jackie: But you don't have to make excuses.

23:51 Jennifer: I just feel like, you know, we could have been I could have been a better friend during that time. So, anyways, a friend lost, the lost friend isn't love wasted, and you're not broken, you're just getting back to being who you are, that you can recover from these things, and that when whoever you got into a loss with, and the one I was talking about earlier, the one that didn't they still leave you something behind in you. They still have memories, you still have we still talk about them. Yeah, we still have admiration for things they do or whatever.

24:21 Jennifer: It's not like it's an end-of-the-world situation when these things end, but it just certainly feels like it. And I certainly think that we should give space for people to have these emotions during these type of breakups that this is bigger deal, and society needs to recognize, especially for girls, when we lose our best friend, it's it's more than just a casual breakup and a casual friend loss. It's it's pretty significant. Anyways, just our rapid fire questions. And you want to go first? Okay.

24:49 Jackie: The first one, the friend you still think about.

24:51 Jennifer: I still think about all my friends. I mean, I I can go back to pre-kindergarten. I mean, I all these people that I've known in my life that I do, but I still think about the losses of those friends that the ones, you know, in particular's a couple of them, but you know, of course I still think about them. I hope they're well. One of them I can kind of see what's going on with her life, and the other one, obviously we we can't really see anything. We don't know. We just know she's okay, but we don't really see that she's okay.

25:15 Jennifer: So I think for that one is a little more like, oh, I hope she's okay, like everything's going well and life's good for her. Like, I just think we would know if there wasn't, and you just kind of have to believe in that. We would know if there was something wrong.

25:27 unknown: Yeah.

25:27 Jennifer: And if not, then we just have to we just have to think, well, everything's going okay because we haven't heard anything. So that's a rough one.

25:34 Jackie: So I think about it. I'm kind of with you, I think about all my yeah. It's you'll have memories come up, and all of a sudden that all comes back. Oh, that was this. Right. Good trick, good time. And then the memories are the ones that they've lost.

25:46 Jennifer: Right. And different times of your periods, right? Different periods of time. Like I kindergarten, I remember my best friend in kindergarten, I'm still friends with her, but and then I went to grade school, and my best friend's in grade school, and I went to a different school. But and just as I go through life, you know, like I always check back. Are you guys good? Like, is everything good?

26:01 Jackie: And uh, you know, so I don't think I'm as good at that. You're not that once so that far back that I've been in their lives continuously, like we've been doing. Um because I just my life's so busy.

26:13 Jennifer: Well, we've been friends since we were like what 15 for sure. Because we drove the car before we were able to drive.

26:18 Jackie: Well, we're well, yeah. Yeah, 12. I don't have anybody back from kindergarten.

26:24 Jennifer: Yeah, I don't think most people do. I think most people lose track of their kindergarten best friends because I moved to the mountains in third grade, fourth grade.

26:31 Jackie: Right. So I would say, yeah. So the what I have for this back is like Melinda. Oh, sorry, one of our good friends. And but that's probably one of them.

26:40 Jennifer: The one that goes far back, yeah.

26:44 Jackie: I talked to a lot. Yeah. Well, you've been with the same people at each other, yeah.

26:47 Jennifer: Yeah, you've been in the same people since third or fourth grade. So I didn't start until like seventh grade. So, anyways. All right, so this one's for you, Jack. One thing you wish you could have said. Yeah, bye.

26:56 Jackie: I would have been I mean, I wish I would have known both ones that I could have went there and seen them, but both ones both happen so quickly. Yeah. Unless it's like my recent ones.

27:08 Jennifer: Yeah, of course. Yeah. I think that's tough because goodbye.

27:11 Jackie: And I love you.

27:13 Jennifer: Yeah, I know.

27:14 Jackie: And I'll miss you.

27:15 Jennifer: Sorry. One of those things that we say, and we've talked about this before, is that anytime we kind of get off the phone, especially Jackie and I, okay, love you, bye. Like, if that's a last thing you're gonna hear from me, then that's a good thing. Like, I love you too, bye. Like, that's just if that's the last conversation we have, then that's you know, that's always a nice thing to be like, Well, what's the last thing you guys said to each other? I'm sure that you do that when you lose somebody.

27:37 Jennifer: It's like, what's the last thing? You know, and then you start waking up.

27:43 Jackie: My parents work. And so we, you know, you have the rotary phone, the call before school, or when you get home. Right. And always we had to say, I love you right off the phone.

27:50 Jennifer: Right.

27:51 Jackie: And my parents did it and we did it.

27:53 Jennifer: Yeah. I think my I think we did that at my house too. I'm pretty sure that I think yeah, that's where I got it from. Sure.

27:59 Jackie: I don't think we said that so awkward. Like, I should talk to you, and it's like, I'm so used to it. I know. Love you. It's just silence on the other side.

28:08 Jennifer: They're like, okay, are we there? Okay. Or you don't like, I've done it at work, or it's like, okay, okay, I'll send those I'm gonna send that those notes over and email it. And you don't think about it, you're like, I love you, and the guy's like, you're like, you know, your vendor is like, and then you hang up because you're so embarrassed.

28:28 Jackie: Pass away. And all of a sudden that but there comes the oh she passed. Oh, she said I love you. It's a positive. It's a positive.

28:34 Jennifer: It's a positive. So no, of course. And then, oh, last word, last question.

28:40 Jackie: What'd you learn about yourself through the loss?

28:42 Jennifer: I learned through myself through the losses that I feel like any of those losses that you know, maybe my need to be more proactive or reactive or less reactive, maybe, to you know, everybody has their own space, and you gotta sometimes give people space where they're at in life and uh, you know, maybe take in consideration that more and and do better um at being a friend as well.

29:07 Jackie: Okay. And I learned um from my stuff. What you learned about yourself is a lot. Always let your my friends know how much I love them.

29:16 Jennifer: Right. Always don't ever let it go undone. All right, you all. Well, we are gonna sign off today for our podcast. We do um we do wish that you will send the inquiries in. We're always looking forward to them if this episode hit you in the fails or made you feel laugh way too hard, we consider that a win.

29:33 Jackie: Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it to be with share it with your ride or die.

29:38 Jennifer: And when you're ready to make your friendship official, book your bestimony at rhinestoneweddingchapel.com.

29:43 Jackie: Because the best love stories don't always come with a brain.

30:00 Song: We stick together at or die to the moon, and no amount of space could ever come between us two. Reuniting's like we've never been apart, and every single time we're out of eye and heart to heart.

31:16 Song: We write it to me, everyone.