Caught in the Middle | When Your Best Friends Are Fighting

0:00 Jennifer: Hey there, I'm Jennifer. And I'm Jackie. Welcome to Slightly Unsupervised. We're best friends, business partners, and the chaos behind bestimony, a ceremony we created to celebrate the kind of soulmates who don't come with a marriage license.

0:10 Jackie: This podcast is all about friendship, the deep stuff, the messy stuff, and the laugh until you snort stuff. So whether you're driving, folding laundry, hiding in your car for some peace and quiet. We're so glad you're here. Let's get slightly unsupervised. All right, today, caught in the middle when two friends you love are fighting. Have you ever had two friends you love get into a fight and somehow you end up right smack in the middle of it? One calls you and tells you what happened, then the other calls and tells you a completely different version of the exact same story.

0:39 Jackie: And now you know too much. You understand why she's hurt, but you also understand why the other one is hurt, and you care about both of them. So what are you supposed to do? Are you supposed to agree with whoever is talking to you? Tell her when you think she's wrong, keep keep everything the other friend told you to yourself, and what happens when one of them wants you to choose a side. Today we're talking about how to be a good sounding board when two people you love are fighting and how to support both friendships without becoming part of the fight yourself.

1:09 Jennifer: Yeah, well, every girl's been in this situation. It started in preschool, I'm sure of it. A minute week after the clerics, girls, this is when this one started. So it's a good one. And I can, you know, I am s quite certain that I have been in the middle of many of these things, and I'm sure you have too, Jackie, because this is a girl thing. And here's some good information for you on what to do, and you're standing in the middle, because the other thing that happened is you can stand in the middle of the two friends, and you become they may be best friends, and you're in the middle of these two best friends or really good friends, and now you're everybody's best friend.

1:51 Jennifer: Have you ever had that happen, Jackie? Where you're the the one in the middle is now everybody's best friend, and you're like, I didn't know I was everybody's best friend. Then you're kind of forced to decide which one of you is my best friend. I don't know. It's just it's a complicated place to be for sure.

2:07 Jackie: So anyways, all of a sudden I'm not texting back. I'm ghosting everybody. I've got so much going on. I don't know what's I'm so sorry. I I got the grandkids every day. I don't know what's going on. I'm not getting involved in any of this.

2:22 Jennifer: So yeah. I mean, staying out of it's good, but you can't stay out of it sometimes because then you become part of the problem too. The reason they're fighting is the reason they don't like you now either. So it's a problem, okay? Us girls have this problem. We understand. Okay, you don't have to decide who's right. That's the first thing to keep in mind. It's not your decision to decide who's right and who's wrong. And if you want to remain friends with both at the end of it, stay in the neutral zone.

2:50 Jennifer: If you want to be friends with only one of them, agree with them because you're both gonna end up on the crap list for the other one. So neutral is good when you're between two people fighting. And here's some good things to say. I I understand why you that hurts you. And you know, I can sympathize with that situation without getting into a place where you're like, well, you're right and she's wrong, right? Then stay out of that one because that's a sure sign that you're gonna end up with one of them.

3:18 Jennifer: And here's a good example, Jackie. When people are are in a relationship and boyfriend and girlfriend, right? Let's just go back to high school and I gotta find my boyfriend and I went to you and I was like, he did this. Naturally, you would agree with me because you didn't like so-and-so, right? So you didn't have a choice, he was is dead. But what happens when that happens too much, right? Because I always go back to so-and-so, right? I would always reconcile with him and then go back with him.

3:45 Jennifer: And then who is the person that was always the problem then? You! Why? Because you're the one that would say something and be like, well, I'm not telling her anymore because she doesn't understand or whatever. And I and I'm not saying that's true, I'm just saying the scenario of that is true, that when you agree with somebody and they go back to the same person all the time, then the person that's the problem is you, and you end up with no friends, right? So you gotta be careful here, girls. That's all I'm saying.

4:10 Jennifer: Okay, two people can experience the same fight differently. That's true, right? There's two sides to it. And when two people are in a tiff about something, even though you think you could be right there and watch the whole thing, and it's still all the things that happened beforehand, all the things that led up to it, all the things that all this stuff kind of comes into play. So you've gotta be you've gotta be mindful that you don't know all the story. You might have seen some of it, but you maybe you didn't see the part that happened prior that caused the the part to, you know, and kind of be a problem that day or whatever.

4:44 Jennifer: So it's not easy to take the side of somebody when you don't have all the information. And even though we think we know all the information, we're not privy to most of it. You agree with that, Jackie?

4:55 Jackie: Yeah. I try to stay out. I mean, I try to listen, but I try to stay out. I listen to both sides, but yeah. I I usually have a side, but I don't let them know. Yeah, that one's hard to you get it. You it's hard to not have a side.

5:09 SPEAKER_01: It is.

5:10 Jackie: Let's be honest. It's it's as women, it's hard not to have a side. So I'll have one, but the one who knows whose side I have is my husband.

5:18 Jennifer: He's the one that's the telling.

5:20 Jackie: He's the one that I'm like, this is whose side I'm on. Don't say anything. He knows. Yes, he knows not to say anything.

5:26 Jennifer: I know. Well, you have to have your sounding board, right? You have to have somebody that you have to tell them. So, anyways, just because you solid even doesn't mean you understand exactly what's going on, and you can everything has happened and you don't know all the stuff, and not everybody's gonna tell you all the stuff because it's been happening over time. So, again, neutral, stay out of it, try to do whatever. If you pick a side, you'll end up with one friend for a while and they may reconcile, and then you're out yourself.

5:51 Jennifer: So it's a lot of play in here that you have to be careful of. Be a sounding board, but not an echo chamber.

6:00 Jennifer: That's true. You don't want to agree with them. You're right, she's awful. Don't speak to her again. Like, you don't want to be that person either. So I'm really good at being a sounding board, and I tend to agree with people when I think they're in the right on something, maybe not everything, but I good to point out part of it. Like I agree with you on that. I agree with you on that. Doesn't mean I agree with you on everything, but I I'll agree with you on that part of it. I do think because it is good to give some people some perspective too, that sometimes I'm like, I see that.

6:29 Jennifer: What I agree with you on is that part. Does that would you do that? I would do that. I mean, that's how I would be. I would say in that instance, I can see your point on that one. And but I would kind of stay out of the part of it of all of it because people need to grow in these things too. And don't become the messenger. Don't with she told me this.

6:49 Jackie: This is hard, some hard stuff, because I I do know I did have two friends that I just popped into my head, and uh and I remember them kind of going back and forth, and um and this was this is probably in my forties, and it was so hard. It was just and the one was just jealous of what the other one was doing, is pretty much what it was. It was just ridiculous because she wasn't getting the attention from the other one. They were at different stages of their life, and so she was angry because she wouldn't, you know, she would be doing stuff with other people.

7:18 Jackie: Well, you have kids now, and she doesn't. She has grandchildren, she's doing other things, she can't, she's not at your beck and call to come do everything you want to do anymore. Right. So, you know what I mean? Yeah. But I remember and I'd I'd sit there and be like, Well, you're at a different stage. You know, I'd try to say stuff like that, but not say, Oh, you're right, but try to explain it, and it was very hard. She just just just didn't understand. Didn't understand. And the other one was just like, she was just frustrated with her.

7:45 Jackie: She just wouldn't really say much, she just wouldn't do anything with her.

7:48 Jennifer: Yeah. Well, it happens, you know, people like I said, we don't know all the history. The history, longwithstanding history, too. You know, when you jump into something, you gotta be careful because you don't really know all the stuff that's happened and doesn't so I stayed very in the middle and didn't get caught up. Did they reconcile?

8:05 Jackie: No. Actually, this is a sad story. That one passed away.

8:09 Jennifer: Oh, that's terrible.

8:10 Jackie: So the one that was mad, um left with that. That's uh and I can't tell you how many times I heard from her, you know, we were fighting when she passed. You know, we're and I I finally one day, I this is the meanest thing, but I couldn't help it. I just turned around because I always acted like I didn't know.

8:27 Jennifer: Yeah.

8:28 Jackie: And I just turned to her and I said, I know. Yeah. Because I couldn't take it anymore. It was just like, you know, all that time I wouldn't say anything, wouldn't be in the middle of it. Right. And finally it was like, okay, stop doing it. I don't want to hear it anymore.

8:39 Jennifer: Right. It's and there's nothing to even argue about. It's because the one person that was alive still talking about it.

8:46 Jackie: And it's just like she's gone now. I don't have to hear anymore about that. You were fighting. Right. No. But do you think the the girl shut her up fast because she never spoken about it to me again?

8:56 Jennifer: But do you think the person that was that was left here felt bad because they were fighting?

9:01 Jackie: Yeah, obviously.

9:02 Jennifer: She was like, had reconciled it now because you were held on to some anger, and now the person's gone. There's nothing to fight about. See, yeah, that stuff happens.

9:10 Jackie: I mean And I was the next closest person to her, so that's why she was saying to kept telling me, you know, we were fighting every time I'd see her, and I'm like, just I'd kind of change the subject, or yeah, I'm sorry. You know, I just change and then she so one day I just couldn't take it more. And I just like, I know.

9:25 Jennifer: Like I know you were fighting. And then they she passed away, and then the reconciling never happened. And I'm sure the person that's left here has to deal with that. Because you held on to your anger too long and you could have repaired it and you didn't do it.

9:38 SPEAKER_00: So bad, bad, bad.

9:41 Jennifer: Okay, don't help don't help either friend stay angry, right? Yeah. Don't do that. Don't feed the monsters. Monsters have enough anger. You gotta find some places where you can put in some perspective. I always try to do that. Yeah, well, remember when they did that and they helped you? I mean, keep in mind, I I can think of a person here that I'm thinking about that is to fight with somebody, like kind of my neighbors, and they fight with each other, and and the one's getting divorced and the other one was trying to help her, and then the husband came back in for a while, and so of course the one that was trying to help her got axed out of it and been like, Well, you know, you're too busy you're too nosy, you're in our business.

10:18 Jennifer: This is what I was saying. You gotta be careful you get involved with it, because when they get back together, then you're the problem. Anyways, so anyway, so now they're and getting divorced and something happened to a friend that's around here, so they text each other about it, so they're friends again. But I kept saying to her, I go, don't get yourself into a situation where you don't have anybody, you're you need a support system now, and and she was supported you. You should be very you should be very careful when you just say, Well, people are shouldn't do this or shouldn't do that.

10:43 Jennifer: Like you shouldn't toss people aside because of your situation, because when it comes down to it, which you really need somebody to support you, and she was your supporter, and so I kept saying, You better be careful, you better reconcile that one because she supported you. She's in trouble because your husband came back for a minute and now he's gone again. But I'm like, that woman was on your side, like you need those people to help you. Like, don't don't let people chase people out of your lives.

11:09 Jennifer: I had that with Jackie, so I'm very, you know, aware of it. Like the person that is the problem that's keeping you apart will get tossed out. So you've got to be careful with that. So but they're friends again, so I'm glad to hear that. But yeah. Okay. What if you think your friend is wrong, Jackie?

11:26 Jackie: You know one of them is wrong. Yeah, I told you that one was wrong. Right. Like in the incident I was just talking about, but I just I didn't say I I would kind of like make examples. You have kids now, they don't, they're doing different things. They're not meaning to do, you know, hurt your feelings. Right. Sh she wouldn't get it. And that's where I left it at. I didn't go farther into it.

11:48 Jennifer: Which is good.

11:48 Jackie: It wasn't where it was like I was thinking you're adult enough, you should hear yourself. Right. You know what I mean? Right. By me saying this, and that's all that's as far as I go.

11:56 Jennifer: Right. That's good. I mean, that's what you gotta do. You gotta stay neutral when you know it's not gonna help. It's just better to stay neutral and just let it be. Because you can't some people are not willing or ready to have a conversation, and that's not your job to make it. So, okay, that's good. Don't let someone else's fight become your fight. This I have a problem with. And that's what I did.

12:16 Jackie: Yep.

12:17 Jennifer: I made sure I didn't get in their fight. I do this sometimes because I'm like, no one's messing with my friends, we're gonna fight them together. I mean, you know how that goes. Yep. I can think of the one person that everybody was friends with except me, and I'm like, you know, all of a sudden, it was like when she did something, I'm like, let's go beat her up. Like I was ready to make, you know, make her that my fight by fight. It wasn't my fight, but I was ready. So sometimes I did join that fight though.

12:44 Jackie: I'm in that fight.

12:50 Jackie: Cause that other one came to me trying to tell her side, and I was like, nope.

12:55 Jennifer: No, not on our besties. Uh, not you're not touching that. That's loyalty, y'all. That's loyalty. That's something that you gotta have if you have a best friend. So this is, you know, there's a there's a fine line between all of this. You could fight with friends, but when you're gonna attack somebody or you're gonna do something to somebody's family that we like, well, you're gonna be paying the price for that one. So yeah, she's let me call you.

13:17 Jackie: I need to talk to you. I'm gonna tell you my side. I don't need to hear your side. No, there's one side and she's right there, and that's my best friend, and that's it. Right.

13:26 Jennifer: Loyalty, y'all. Loyalty. That's what that is. Okay, now when it's time to stop listening. Yeah, that's what you probably had, Jackie, at some point was like, I've heard enough. Now I'm not going to hear any more of it, and that's enough. And you put a stop to it, which is good, right? You shut her down so that you're not a forever sounding board. You gave her the opinion of how you felt or whatever, and she stopped giving you her information. So that's good. You know, it's a good play on you. It keeps it at you out of it for the rest of your life, and you can move on with it.

13:58 Jennifer: So all right. What does a sound what does a good sounding board actually do? Just keep it simple. Listen without judging, keep confidences, so don't tell everybody. Don't carry messages, don't pile onto the anger. Tell your friend the truth when she needs to hear it. Encourage direct conversation, and most importantly, don't make their conflict about your loyalty. Yeah, that's what I do. I'll get into conflict over loyalty all day long. So this is probably a good one for me to. I can't help it though.

14:25 Jennifer: I'm not gonna change. I promise you, it's not gonna happen. So if you if I'm loyal to somebody, I would take your fight somewhere else because you're not gonna give me the budget on it. Somebody who's not my best friend, well then we'll have a conversation about it, but it's not my best friends. So, anyways, okay, Jackie, let's go to bestie rapid question. Would you tell me if if you thought I was wrong in a fight?

14:43 Jackie: Yes, but not in front of them.

14:45 Jennifer: Yeah. You I know how you are. Just passive aggressive.

14:49 SPEAKER_04: I'd let you fight with them, and then later I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you were you were wrong. But you know, you want.

14:56 Jennifer: You know, I was thinking, I just just right now made me think of something. Do you remember when we were in Palm Springs with your family the one time and I got a fight with the one chick over there, and there was that whole ordeal that went down, and you kind of had to keep in the neutral spot because it was your family and me, and was like a little probably uncomfortable for you. But do you remember that, Jackie?

15:18 SPEAKER_04: No, but I'm I'm sure you can remind me of it. Probably something I probably something I I like let go because I didn't want to remember.

15:27 Jennifer: Yeah. I'll tell you, I was at a the pool and I got I put my two cents in about something. And anyways, the one got real mad and was all been out of shape for a long time and about how I was terrible for saying it or whatever, and Jackie had to kind of get in.

15:44 Jackie: No, I remember now. Okay.

15:46 Jennifer: Jackie had to kind of get in the middle of it and be like, you know, that's not what she said. And it wasn't really what I said, what she thought I said. I really hadn't said that. But, anyways, it was Jackie had to get in the middle of that one, and it was like, you know, family or whatever. And so we ended up hanging out at the hotel by ourselves that night instead of going to dinner with everybody because of the situation. So it happens, y'all. It happens. So it happens. Sometimes my mouth gets myself in trouble sometimes.

16:11 Jackie: She was guilty too, though. There was a little, there was light going on right there. There's yeah, you weren't bad. You you just said what you wanted to say.

16:22 Jennifer: Yeah. That's just a while. She was saying what she wanted to say, but she was, but I just was You were a little more blunt. I'm known for it, actually.

16:31 SPEAKER_04: You probably could have kept it to yourself. Probably. But it was good. It was fine. We worked out. We got to do it.

16:39 Jackie: It worked out. So, anyways. Have you ever agreed with me just because I'm your best friend? 100%.

16:47 Jennifer: If you're not best friends with somebody and you can't, if you say no, you're not their best friend, I'll tell you that right now. We just that's it. Like, I will see my best friend's side of it much better than I will see anybody else's side of it, because I also know them, them in a more personal level, and I know how they think. So of course, I I generally will agree. If it I will always agree to get us out of it, and then I may have a conversation later, which is what you would do too, right?

17:12 Jennifer: Be like, we'll sticking together right now, and then we'll get out of the situation, and then maybe we'll talk about maybe there was maybe we were wrong or something, but it would not be in the situation, it would be outside the situation, right? I'd always stand up for you and then move on to when we're not by when we're by ourselves, which is exactly what you would do too. I mean, you don't ban your best friend in the middle of anything. That's not that's not loyalty. No. Okay, could you stay friends with someone I wasn't speaking to?

17:36 Jackie: It would matter the circumstances. If it was in high school, I wouldn't be speaking to them because that's how we worked. That's just what it was. That's what it was. Joined the hip, and if we didn't like somebody, we both didn't like them. Right. And and everybody knew that. Just there was not a question about it. Like if you made a an enemy out of one of us, you knew the other one was right behind them. Right. Your enemy, the two enemies, right. But I feel like with maturity now. Sure. Sure. It would just matter what the reasoning that you're not talking.

18:07 Jackie: Right. Right. They did something, you know, like if they did something to your kids, I'm gonna be on your side. You know what I mean? Right. That type of thing.

18:15 Jennifer: Yeah. It depends. I mean, everybody has their reasons for not speaking or not talking to people.

18:19 SPEAKER_04: I mean, if if you got mad because they didn't let you eat, I probably am gonna talk to them.

18:25 Jennifer: You can't let her get hangry, man. It's not right. You're gonna have problems with her with that. So I get you. I understand. And I in my maturity will let you still be friends with somebody that I'm not friends with. I will just be like, I'm not talking, I don't want to talk about that person. I don't like that person. I that's how I would be. So, anyways.

18:42 Jackie: Have you ever been asked to choose sides? Yes. Everybody does. Well, not everybody, but I've had people, yes, want you to choose sides. Like, just pick a side.

18:52 Jennifer: You're like, hmm, not really good.

18:54 Jackie: And I haven't. I've done it.

18:56 Jennifer: Yeah, it depends on the search of circumstances. And when you want to remain friends with everybody, don't pick a side. When you don't care, pick a side. You know, it's complicated. So all right, Jackie, what's worse? Being the messenger or being the referee? Referee.

19:11 Jackie: Because it forces you to act as a judge, which which almost always risks alienating one or both friends.

19:18 Jennifer: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

19:20 Jackie: So I don't be a referee.

19:21 Jennifer: No. You get stuck in it sometimes though. Like you could be in a situation. Like the best thing to do is diffuse it as much as you can or take the situation to another level or whatever. So sometimes you have to be though. You can't you cannot sidestep it. It's part of the thing.

19:38 Jackie: Part of being it. Okay. How long do you let a friend vent before saying, okay, now what are you going to do about it?

19:45 Jennifer: I think once you've made peace with it or once you've had enough conversations with it, it's like, okay, we've talked about it, we've looked at it from all angles. Now what are you gonna do about it? That's you know, I guess.

19:56 Jackie: Or like me. I know.

20:00 Jennifer: Or you just be blunt. Yeah, leave it there. I know. So stop talking about it. So yeah.

20:05 Jackie: So I put when they are no longer processing the event and they are just admiring the problem. Yeah, exactly. When I feel my energy dropping.

20:15 Jennifer: Yes.

20:16 SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's it. So about 20 minutes. No, just kidding.

20:21 Jennifer: There's a time though, where it's just like that's enough. We've had enough. Okay. If both friends tell you something in confidence, how hard is it not to accidentally reveal what you know? It's hard for me. Y'all, I forget what I'm not supposed to know. It's it's hard for me to not speak because I want everybody to be friends or get past it and I'll say whatever it is that I'm not supposed to say. So everybody knows not to tell me stuff that they do not want repeated. You would probably be better at it than me.

20:47 Jackie: Yeah, if it helped the situation, it would be hard. If it would escalate, not hard at all.

20:52 Jennifer: Not hard at all. All right. And the one big one.

20:58 Jackie: What do you owe your best friend loyalty or honesty when you can't give her both?

21:04 Jennifer: Loyalty.

21:05 Jackie: I think you owe a best friend a balance of both, as true friendship requires standing by someone while also holding them accountable. But if I have to pick, it would be loyalty. Yeah. Because loyalty loyalty signifies commitment and a willingness to protect, even if it involves white lies to spare feelings or provide support. Right? Yeah. Sometimes I have to say, You're right. And in the back of my head, I'm like, no, she's not.

21:33 Jennifer: No, she's not. Loyalty, loyalty trumps honesty in when you're best friends with each other. I'm sorry. It just does. The thing that you gotta keep in the foreprint of any friendship there. So, okay. I think when two people we love are fighting, we feel pressured to do something. Fix it, choose a side, figure out who's right, defend somebody. But maybe that's not what either friend actually needs from us. Maybe what she needs is somewhere safe to put all of our feelings for a minute. Someone who will listen without turning into anger.

22:01 Jennifer: Someone who can say, I understand what you heard without immediately deciding that the other person is terrible. And sometimes someone who loves her enough to say I think you might be wrong about this. Because loyalty isn't agreeing with everything your friend says. Sometimes loyalty is telling her the truth when everybody else is telling her what she wants to hear. And if you love both women, you shouldn't have to prove your friendship with one by betraying your friendship with the other. Don't carry the messages, don't add fuel to the fight.

22:29 Jennifer: Listen to be honest and when the time comes, reminder that the conversations you really need to have probably isn't with you, it's with the other person. Because being a good sounding board doesn't mean helping your friend win the fight. Sometimes it means helping her see clearly enough to decide what she wanted to do next. And if you're lucky, maybe you'll get to remain exactly what you were before their fight ever started. A good friend to both of them. If this is the conversation, made you think of your person, call her, text her, take her to coffee, and tell her she matters.

22:56 Jennifer: Because some of life's greatest love stories don't come with a marriage license.

23:00 Jackie: If you enjoyed today's episode, we'd be so grateful if you subscribe, leave us a review, and share it with your ride or die best friend.

23:06 Jennifer: Want to see some of our incredible friendships we've celebrated? Visit our Bestimony YouTube channel where women from all over the country share their stories of friendship and how it changed their lives.

23:15 Jackie: And if one day you'd like to celebrate your your own friendship, we'd love to welcome you to Nashville.

23:20 Jennifer: Until next time, keep showing up, keep cheering each other on, keep celebrating the women who make life better. We'll see you next time on Slightly Unsupervised.

23:44 SPEAKER_01: And no amount of space could ever come between us two. The reuniting's like we've never been apart, and every single time we're eye to eye and heart to heart.

24:15 Song: Through heartaches and ups and downs in this life, you've stayed right next to me. I've outta make you laugh till you cry. Look at everything under the moon. The definition of a bit sprint. It's good.

24:50 SPEAKER_03: And we'll keep anything to the race whatever writing a story. Everything will keep on going every day.

25:22 Song: What you made. The heart aches and laps and down to this life don't stay right next to me. Uh bottom bake you laugh till you try it.

25:41 Song: The definition of trust that's loyalty.